rakka: том: is it worth learning XHTML in 2021 ?
No one uses it, browsers may depreciate it isn't it ?
Also its latest release was in 2014 . is it abandonware already ?
том: Yes
том: It's the only actual standard that works in every browser ever, and has two states, broken and working
том: No half way inbetween kinda sorta broken but sometimes maybe
том: It isn't a ware, it's a standard
том: And it's fully supported by sustainable browsers like netsurf
том: There's nothing stopping a browser vendor from executing a specific codepath for XHTML1.1, in fact that's what the spec is intended for
том: While I agree, there is need for a newer XHTML standard, unfortunately the W3C has been completely bought out by big corpos
том: XHTML1.1 was the last truly sane actual spec from the W3C
том: Before they become a mouthpiece of Microsoft Google Netflix Mozilla (funded by Google)
том: I've thought about making a XHTML1.2 spec and dtd myself
том: It's a bit too much of a workload for me now though, and XHTML1.1 works pretty good
rakka: So, if I make a website with XHTML website I'm not sure it will remain accessible in ten years right ?
том: Tim Burners Lee himself said to target XHTML1.1 to ensure your freedom of useragent choice
том: Years, decades to come
том: rakka: the thing about XHTML is that even the earliest XHTML1.0 STRICT standard still renders perfectly, just how it did back in the 90s today
том: Because it's an actual real standard with a finite scope
том: If you code your website to XHTML1.1 spec and it passes the validation checker, it's going to last forever
rakka: This is good
But what if Firefox drops support for it just like it did with legacy extensions ?
том: Vs if you code your website to HTML5, it's going to last only as long as the current latest version of Google CHrome doesn't change something
том:
» But what if Firefox drops support for it just like it did with legacy extensions ?
I doubt their going to do that, but if that's the case you could just use any other browser like netsurf, links, xlinks, an old version of firefox, web browser, chrome, or hell, even netscape navigator
том: Or write your own
том: XHTML1.1 actually has a sane finite spec that you can realisticlly implement yourself
том: Like the netsurf people did
rakka: I understand . is there a list of XHTML websites just like nojs.club ?
том: rakka: yeah https://anybrowser.org/campaign/
том: Anybrowser.org
том: Catb.org
том: The webserver cgi from plan's netplan
том: Cgit
том: Government websites where it's a matter of life and death
том: So they actually paid someone to do it right, not just had some below minimum wage upwork
rakka: All good then. I'm planning to test it by creating my resume in XHTML
том: rakka: libreoffice exports into xhtml
том: File>saveas
rakka: So that I no longer need proprietary bleep .
> rakka: libreoffice exports into xhtml
Does it renders spaghettis code like Dreamweaver ?
том: Yeah, it's hella ugly
том: But it's valid xhtml
том: Not as cleanly written as something handmade with vim/emacs or a custom cgi
birb: thats a lovely room topic
том: You probably don't want to make a website with libreoffice, but for exporting a resume it's fine
rakka: Wym CGI ?
rakka: Oh you mean GUI programs ?
том: No i mean serverside scripting
том: Like with Perl or C
том:
» $ cat /etc/conf.d/thttpd
» # Copyright 1999-2012 Gentoo Foundation
» # Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License, v2 or later
»
» ## Config file for /etc/init.d/thttpd
»
» ## the startup-dir of thttpd is the docroot, so we specify it here
» ## and the init-script does a "cd" prior to startup:
» THTTPD_DOCROOT="/var/www/localhost"
»
» ## There are 2 ways to configure thttpd:
» ## 1) specify all params on the cmd-line
» ## 2) use a config-file (and start with "-C ")
»
» ## For additional thttpd instances, run:
» # ln -s /etc/init.d/thttpd /etc/init.d/thttpd.$NAME
» # cp /etc/conf.d/thttpd /etc/conf.d/thttpd.$NAME
»
» ## Note: 1) and 2) can be mixed but
» ## the init-script set PID (option -i) to
» ## /var/run/thttpd.$NAME.run
» ## and logfile (option -l) to
» ## /var/log/thttpd.$NAME.log
» ##
» ## We choose 1) here -- if you have a more complicated setup read
» ## thttpd(8) for details on 2).
»
» #THTTPD_OPTS="-p 80 -u thttpd -r"
»
» ## For a more complex setup (e.g. cgi-support) use an external configfile:
» ## comment the THTTPD_OPTS line above und use the one below.
» THTTPD_OPTS="-C /etc/thttpd/thttpd.conf"
»
» ## If you know what you are doing you can add cgi-support with the line below;
» ## but you _should_ use the extern-configfile version!
» #THTTPD_OPTS="$THTTPD_OPTS -c **.cgi|**.sh"
» [:~] $ ls /var/www/localhost/
» cgi-bin htdocs
» [:~] $ ls /var/www/localhost/cgi-bin/
» admin.cgi bottom.html calendar.cgi cgi-lib.pl common.pl help.html holiday_webplan menu.cgi rtsban.jpg webAdd.cgi webList.cgi webmod.cgi webmodDel.cgi webmonth.cgi
»
том: https://cdn.nuegia.net/058b3de7-2412-4802-a565-676753348d18/screenshot_003.png
том: It stands for common gateway interface
rakka: Oh i see. I didn't know CGI could be use this way
> No i mean serverside scripting
> Like with Perl or C
том: It allows you to generate XHTML on the fly, on your server, in any language you want
rakka: I understand
том: Not just javableep running on the client's web browser
rakka: Is this specific to XHTML ?
том: No
rakka: So this is like , what python calls library ?
том: But it works best with XHTML because you can validate your outputs with any generic XML tooling that supports dtd
том: It could be a python script that send XHTML to stdoutput
том: Or gemtext
том: Or plaintext
том: In my case it's a jabascript-free web calender
rakka: What's the use case ?
As I understand it, it allows the user to create a website without bothering typing all the tags by hand
том: Written in portable C on the server side, and XHTML only no javascript at all clientside
том: If you wanted to make a dynamic website
rakka: OK. So this is like HTML+php websites right ?
том: That is, as opposed to a static website that doesn't change and simply just serves xhtml files off a hard drive
rakka: I understand . this is like php
том: PHP is a serverside language you could use, albeit one of the worst ones, full of security wholes, slow, a pain to use, and badly designed
rakka: Thanks, not my found tho;)
том: What's cool about netpland is that it's a fully functional personal and collaborative calender you can edit in your browser
том: And it doesn't use any javascript
том: Simply the HTTP form POST method
том: Built into all web browsers
том: No "cookies" not "javascript" just xhtml
rakka: How can I access it ?
rakka: Searx doesn't find it
том: "https://www.bitrot.de/plan.html
rakka: I guess it is possible to make something like google drive without JavaScript then ?
том: No
rakka: (Real time editing )
том: Just use something like sftp
том: Or an actual program for that
rakka: Why no ?
Sftp is not the same at all
том: I think abiword supports that does it not?
том: A collaboration server and client
rakka: Why is it bad when it happens in the browser ?
rakka: Vs good with abiword
том: Because it's bad to shoehorn functionality that doesn't belong in a document rendering technology (web browser)
том: That's why the "web 2.0" bleep uses like 3 gigs of ram and runs at half a frame per second doing the same bleep your computer from the 90s could do with 64 megs of ram and a pentium running at 66MHz
том: Better and faster
том: It's like asking "why doesn't my bicycle also wash my dishes? I should add dish washing functionality to my bike"
том: https://drewdevault.com/2020/03/18/Reckless-limitless-scope.html
том: And also why all the web2.0 bleep only ever works right in Google Chrome, or Firefox, Google's pretend competition they fund so the FTC doesn't knock them down with an antitrust suite
том: 97% of Mozilla's funding comes from google
том: That's not real competition
том: https://digdeeper.neocities.org/ghost/mozilla.html#finances
rakka: You mean if Firefox vanished google could legitimately get knocked by FTC ?
том: Please make your websites work in other browser than just google chrome and firefox
rakka: > You mean if Firefox vanished google could legitimately get knocked by FTC ?
I feel like they are beyond FTC lol
том:
» You mean if Firefox vanished google could legitimately get knocked by FTC ?
That's what I think. I mean what Mozilla does now is point to firefox and say "look! We have competition, were are not a monopoly here look at firefox!"
EncryptedSnowstorm: Shadow wiki?
том: When if you just look for a second behind the curtain 97% of mozilla's funding comes from Google, and all they ever do is play catchup to google chrome, and emulate it's UI
том: They don't dare block ads
том: Or do anything to upset google corporation
том: Or alphabet (google's parent company)
rakka: Following your bicycle analogy, It's not the web browser job to block ads right ?